Curse

The Josip · Jun 21, 2010, 06:48 PM // 18:48

What can I expect of caster hero equipped with a spear and with Splinter Weapon on him? On average, what kind of damage can I expect, not dps, but damage per weapon spell cast?
I'm aware that there are many variables, which is why I'm asking those who have some experience with this.

Slaphead Monk · Jun 21, 2010, 09:59 PM // 21:59

i run my own modded sabway on monk and all 3 necros have caster spears equipped. ive noticed as they should, heros will constantly throw spears whether theyre splintered or not unless they have anti melee hex on em. Mainly because one has barbs/mop so they all tend to hone in on that target and spearchuck, but they do love splinter too

.

because i run necs i obviously have minions so heros very rarely get splintered because they use on minions so much. but when they have had it on them they will still chuck spear and the bonus is around 38 because i spec 10 into channel. Overall id say its worth giving all your caster heros a caster spear, the added damage from splinter is worth it, especially as afaik the damage from splinter is armor ignoring too

EssayReader · Jun 22, 2010, 04:16 AM // 04:16

I would recommend running Splinter Weapon on a caster hero, and then giving a Paragon, or maybe Warrior the spear in order to maximize dps.

The Josip · Jun 22, 2010, 09:23 AM // 09:23

Caster hero with spear. Caster hero with spear. Caster hero.

ruemere · Jun 22, 2010, 11:20 AM // 11:20

Spear has a lower range than wand/staff.

This is bad news for heroes who tend to bunch (even when flagged) because of this (i.e. if you call target, flagged heroes tend to bunch to use spear attacks thus submitting themselves to AOE attacks).
Also, Hero AI (as per my experiences in Shards of Orr) appears to be confused sometimes trying to decide whether to follow kiting opponent, switch to higher range spell or use Splinter Weapon. It's not like they are slow to make a decision, but what they do is often suboptimal (i.e. opponent starts kiting, hero casts Splinter Weapon, hero follows opponent).

This is good news for caster main, as thanks to usually lower armor, your caster becomes a quasi tank (and subsequently, all damage mitigation effects are easier to control).

IMHO, the best way to approach this would be to:
- put Splinter Weapon on a caster hero with staff/wand
- use separate paragon or mesmer hero with spear

My current setup consists of two Commune Ritualists with staves and spear-wielding artificer mesmer variant (OQNDA8w+M/g8spjrhSs+PAeK). Works fine on 1st level of SoO HM (no need to flag heroes, just remember to put three protection spirits before engaging opponents).
Disclaimer: builds intentionally suboptimal

Regards,
Ruemere

The Josip · Jun 22, 2010, 02:05 PM // 14:05

It basically comes down to this:

I am melee with scythe. I've 2 Ritualist heroes with 16 in channeling. One of them will have Splinter for sure, because I need it.

Now, because of builds these heroes run, I have very little use of 40/40 weapon set. Don't need enchantment staff either. Most useful would be spear+shield because of armor bonuses. However, with only 1 splinter they won't always use it on me, but with 2 splinters both of these heroes will have splinter (they dont attack often so it will last long enough) and I'll have it too.

Quote:

Also, Hero AI appears to be confused sometimes

Yea but I don't think spear makes a difference. They can try to wand too, no?

Slaphead Monk · Jun 22, 2010, 03:21 PM // 15:21

you should be flagging your pve heros at least a bit anyway, so them bunching shouldnt matter, even against foes with aoe theyre easy enough to move.

i suggest a +5energy +30hp spear with a hsr20% +30 hp focus, the extra bit of energy does help. Shield i wouldnt really suggest as the extra 8 armor is pretty.. mediocre, though if you get ahold of a +1 channel 20% on shield (i had a death one of these for Olias at one point) then it would be a good idea to sub out focus for shield, but otherwise id have to say focuses (or foci?

) are better.

afaik my heros have never chased a kiter with a spear on just to throw spear at them =\ they tend to always be chucking unless theyre casting, they will always cast heals/offensive skills over doing nothing and just chasing a kiter. plus things should be blocked/snared/near death enough for heros ai to kick in and finish them, normally if somethings kiting its dead before my heros get confused. Done gwamm on my monk and every one of my heros has a caster spear/focus. in none of the areas have i really had a problem with the spears, and imo they work better than wands/staves.

ruemere · Jun 23, 2010, 12:57 PM // 12:57

(on Hero with spear being confused)

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Josip

[...]
Yea but I don't think spear makes a difference. They can try to wand too, no?

Well, using wands and staves to perform ranged is better for three reasons:
- marginally better damage
- 20% higher attack range, which translates into smaller chance of a hero running after its target (while with spear hero alternating between spells and spear attacks sometimes needs to move, thus losing precious seconds and risking possibility of leaving protected area) - kiting is a real problem if your henchman or hero uses area attack with subsequent scatter effect (if spell lands near the edge of danger zone, scattering mobs are likely to pull your heroes, moreso if the heroes use spears)
- for some reason, heroes using wands and staves seem to use spell skills more often... it may be just my personal observation though, I haven't really run any tests.

Regards,
Ruemere

The Josip · Jun 23, 2010, 04:16 PM // 16:16

I never experienced this "running after" scenario, or never at least noticed it.

As for using spells more often, this was one of my concerns - I don't really want my heroes to wand/chuck at all if there are spells they can cast (energy and recharge issue).